One quick point, there's absolutely nothing wrong with other people organising games as well and using whatever rules and guidelines they want. It's not just PBI and CiA in this scene... There's Gunman as well, but also several players got together with their local sites and organised games last year.
CiA have shown how it can be done, the intention always was that others should follow. All the PBI and CiA organisers are volunteers and most had never organised a game before they did a WWII one.
If anyone needs any help or suggestions on how to put on an event we will help. That goes without question.
Yes, VERY good point Yith. The very reason CiA runs a community forum is to foster the WW2 scene. All shades, all levels. Choice is a good thing - players can get what they want, where they want and at a price they can pay.
And yes - if there is some aspect of WW2 that isn't fulfilled them bloody well put some effort in and sort it yourself - chances are others will want to come!
And yes - if there is some aspect of WW2 that isn't fulfilled them bloody well put some effort in and sort it yourself - chances are others will want to come!
Yes we were amazed at the response for the first game...
If there's one thing you have to do to make your game a success it's MARKETING.... and er... ADVERTISING...
Er..
If there's two things you have to do to make your game a success they're MARKETING and ADVERTISING... and er... PLANNING...
Er...
If there's three....
no-one expects the spanish inquesition eh yith,,,,,,,,,, 
One thing to remember is that 2+ years ago the guidleines the five of us wrote were there for a reason as were the play styles.
Counts as was there in weapons and kit as we thought only five guys had true wwii kit that we knew of. ... When over 50 turned up in pretty accurate kit it was a shock.
We initially did a day long regen game because it was december and we wanted to maximise light and playing time on a densley wooded in parts site.
All units included was initially because we really didnt think there was a player base to support saying 'brits only' etc. we risked this at Arnhem for the first time and it worked.
Since then.....
There is plenty of cheap repro kit and about a dozen more wwii guns
We have got better at running games to maximise time meaning we can experiment with formats
There are now in at least three cases groups of ten or more guys kitted out as the same company let alone the same regiment or nation!
When I say 'we' i mean CiA/PBI.
I think different levels of gaming is paramount to keeping the scene alive. We *need* entry level games where you can comeoin whatever you like or counts as but we also need some games that specialise more. You dont have to go to every game.
Personally if someone ran a game where you had to have a definite kit list, play a definite role and badge up as a certain unit and ran it like a military exercise i'd probably be first to sign up.
There is nothing stopping players putting on a game and at the end of the day we can shout an idea down all we like but the proof of the pudding is in the eating. We didnt know is battle of the bulge would work so I'd be foolish to say 'it will never work' to someones idea for a game.
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
i am not shouting down anyones ideas, i am saying dont make ww2 airsoft a private members club . i will always make an effort to have the best kit i possibly can, but in my case its a compromise, i have to think about how many games i can play with the uniforms i have. to further trim it by saying specific weapons only will leave me in a situation where i play 2 games a year. as you well know i am an advocate of the idea of having regular units that have a strict command structure, train as a unit and play as a unit. it builds esprit de corps . i am also very happy about full emersion, to the point of digging in everytime we stop moving, sending out patrols during static deffence the whole nine yards. its the idea that if you dont have a rifle you cant be a rifleman. ok, in that case i will sell all my allied kit, buy just german and a k98, play every game .but if everyone did that, who would be the enemy?
It's a compromise for us all... even me... I've still not got perfect kit and as much as I try it'll never be perfect.
Yup, you will see from all my posts I have advocated pragmatism and compromise. There are ideals for sure but some things are achievable and some just aren't. We live with the incongruity of a balding 50+ bloke acting the part of a 27 year old - we can live with the odd 'incorrect' weapon or two or a badge slightly the wrong colour. 'Cos we want more than two-a-side games.
i am not shouting down anyones ideas, i am saying dont make ww2 airsoft a private members club . i will always make an effort to have the best kit i possibly can, but in my case its a compromise, i have to think about how many games i can play with the uniforms i have. to further trim it by saying specific weapons only will leave me in a situation where i play 2 games a year. as you well know i am an advocate of the idea of having regular units that have a strict command structure, train as a unit and play as a unit. it builds esprit de corps . i am also very happy about full emersion, to the point of digging in everytime we stop moving, sending out patrols during static deffence the whole nine yards. its the idea that if you dont have a rifle you cant be a rifleman. ok, in that case i will sell all my allied kit, buy just german and a k98, play every game .but if everyone did that, who would be the enemy?
Nige I dont think anyones really saying that.
The way i have read it is...
PD would like a game that had an accurate order of battle, some folk want a blat in 40s kit and CIA/PBI want something in between?
I think having one or two games a year where set roles are advertised and filled as applicable is fine.
It works for modern airsoft, distant thunder had platoons with roles you applied fo rand IIRC it wasnt just kit you had to have, to be given a platoon leaders role you had to have real world experience of the forces etc....
Now that would be ludicrous to do all the time but it was cool for a one off.
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
which after 2 exhuasting days of intellectual thrust and parry( without lost tempers or swearing) was my point, its workable because its not formally ridgid set in stone. its inclusive not elitist.
without reading back through the post, i think PD's post said something like 15 riflemen, 2 smg 1 section weapon....... smg done on a rota. to me that was saying if you only have an smg, you get to play when your name comes up, or when its your turn to lead a section, or when you can afford a bolt action. so the blokes who have a well paid regular job can play every game, others not so lucky like myself, ( boom and bust builder) wil have to wait their turn. to me that is elitism, not inclusive.
Scaley, I've been WW2 airsofting for years and years and in the short time you've been WW2 airsofting you have more kit, weapons and loadouts than I do. Elitist? No.
Like everyone has said. This is less about kit and more about the ethos behind how one chooses to represent what one represents.
There are many people with more kit than me. There are many people with more guns than me.
More often than not, I have to borrow kit or play partisan at games where my US kit is not allowed.
The difference is the way in which I play, and I think you're with me on that. You're one of the few people who have come into the scene who has grabbed the immersive element with both hands. 
If anyone wants to run around doing their own thing and not following orders, or even the structure of the game, despite strict instructions to do so then they can go an play on an open day.
What we're proposing is more immersion. In time, the kit and weaponry choices will follow.
NB: I had a GBB Garand once and it was rubbish. I'd love rifle, but that will have to wait until I've paid for the new sofa!
exactly, its about the caliber of the people. my no4 is being built as we speak...... i havent had a days paid work since 22 december. you cant imagine the terrible, awfull things i have had to do to pay for it 
.
You bugger - how elitist is that? One of the few who DO have a No4 
Hehe, pulling your leg Nige. I have to walk the streets at night myself you get be able to afford my simple pleasures (airsoft I mean). This month I had the car serviced. £250. Not that bad as I have spent nothing for best part of 2 years as it's first service was at 20,000 miles. Except that they pointed out the tyres were all below legal tread. So, £600 for 4 tyres I'm legal. The 12 year old freezer breaks down so as a distress purchase I run out and grab another from Comet. I say grab. it cost just under £200. I'm now a grand out of pocket and I have nothing to show for it - nothing I didn't have before. Just prior to this I had forked out for an MP44 so no going back on that and I had paid a deposit for a Sten. Bugger. The savings take another hit this month 
.
I think different levels of gaming is paramount to keeping the scene alive. We *need* entry level games where you can comeoin whatever you like or counts as but we also need some games that specialise more. You dont have to go to every game.
I like the idea of runing large games mabe 24 hours based on whole operations like Op Husky or D-Day for everyone so its relaxed and is more of an event kind of thing which are large scale games, at Husky I thought it was realy great how it catered for both US and British but throughout the whole day we hardly ever saw eachother thus adding a bit of realism and a sence of we need to get to etna first.
But then also suplimenting this with smaller sacale games based on 12 or 24hr of normal infantry life in a reinactsim kind of way at a squad level done realistically like Varsity or if you realy want to push it setting up 24 reinactsim games where you camp in the field so digging foxholes and defences like a real squad would before setteling down for the night would also be cool like said I think a range of games expands the gameplay so you get a taste of everything. 
Also to be fair if I had focused on 1 nation I would have way more than enough for a No4
but you do see my point dave. i would hate such as yourself with your experience and ability to miss out on a game because the rules say you have the wrong weapon. please dont get me started on money, i havent earned a coin since 22 december, i get no dole or any benifits and we have to pay everything full on louises part-time wage of 128 quid a week. now i have to pay 130 quid for a starter motor out of 250 quid i had put together to declair bancruptcy to give us a breathing space. talk about luck,,,,, if it wasnt for bad luck, i wouldnt have any luck at all.
you mention digging in and sleeping in trenches dev.... you wouldnt sleep, you would be stagging on and off every 2-3 hours also night patrols, stand to and radio stag. no-one sleeps in trenches at night.
Well DT, I know what you mean - you will be pleasantly surprised at what the next year or two will bring...
I've read through the whole thread before deciding to enter my tuppence worth. My first WW2 experience was Haggard last year, run by Steiner using CiA rules and I was hooked. I went with an M60 wrapped in scrim as a look alike support weapon and borrowed splinter patten kit. Now not even a year later I've got a full set of Feldgrau and I'm approaching the halfway mark on building an MG42. I've totally embraced the WW2 scene, had a go at running a game (Op Jubilee) and I'm planning another at our Dorking site later in the year. CiA have been a massive support to all this, reading how games are run, what works and what doesnt, and it's only the recent money situation that's curbed this years travelling to other games. It's CiA's inclusive policy that enabled me to get into the scene and that's what I'm using to encourage new players from our site into the game. I was chuffed that I made the kit list for Lightening and gutted that I cant make it, but as others have said, there's plenty more games to come. If the finances pick up and my loadout and weapon fitted a future games requirements, then I'd be happy to join in a more regimented game. If my loadout wasnt appropriate, I'd watch the forum with interst on how it went and look forward to the next game that I could make it to.
